Opposition Defiance Disorder – What an ODD Name
August 29th, 2008 | 
Author: This week, I got a question from one of my readers. I am posting the answer here because I think many people should read it.
Opposition Defiance Disorder (ODD) is another name people who like labels use when they need a budget for helping children. Someone has worked very hard and probably spent many dollars to research kids and teens (they say ODD can start as early as 1-3 years of age) and come up with a nice label. Since ADHD worked so well, ODD should work quite well too. Labels are a good way to attract funds, but I am not sure they are good to make things better.
There, I am done venting. Enough sarcasm. Let's get serious about ODD.
Similarly to what I have said in my article on "The ADHD Myth" (which I recommend that you read), we all probably suffer from ODD at some stage in our lives and perhaps more than once. We suffer from depression, we suffer from ADHD, we suffer from ADD, but I think that "knowing" we suffer from something only makes it worse.
For your understanding of what we are talking about, here is one of the definitions of ODD (others are very similar):
"ODD is a psychiatric disorder that is characterized by two different sets of problems. These are aggressiveness and a tendency to purposefully bother and irritate others. It is often the reason that people seek treatment. When ODD is present with ADHD, depression, tourette's, anxiety disorders, or other neuropsychiatric disorders, it makes life with that child far more difficult. For Example, ADHD plus ODD is much worse than ADHD alone, often enough to make people seek treatment. The criteria for ODD are:
A pattern of negativistic, hostile, and defiant behavior lasting at least six months during which four or more of the following are present [some places are less strict and say you need to have 5 or more of the behaviors]:
- Often loses temper
- Often argues with adults
- Often actively defies or refuses to comply with adults' requests or rules (e.g. refuses to complete work)
- Often deliberately annoys people (e.g. flicks stationary at staff or pupils)
- Often blames others for his or her mistakes or misbehavior
- Often touchy or easily annoyed by others
- Often angry and resentful
- Often spiteful and vindictive
Now let me tell you what I think.
All the definitions here can just as well describe a frustrated, frightened kid who just does not understand how the world works. There is no one to blame - not his parents, not his teachers and not his doctors - because they all do the best they can. At the same time, we can only ask them to help him learn this.
- If the world does not work the way you expect it to work and you do not have the skills to accept it with love, you lose your temper. All of my clients - kids and grown ups alike - come to coaching in order to learn to control their mind, their feelings, their attitude and their action. They all have ODD before they start coaching and all of them are "cured" when they finish. Was it a malfunction of the brain or a malfunction of our education? (Bear with me, Special Education professionals always complain about the malfunction of the education system).
- If you feel frustrated, judged, helpless and mistreated you argue. Arguments are caused by frustration. No one argues when they get what they need and want. Parents and teachers are only human and they do not always know what kids' need or want. They tend to think that "all kids think and want the same things", when in fact kids are unique and have different needs and wants. Therefore, parenting is often done by trial and error. What works for one kid does not necessarily work for their brother, sister or classmate. Kids are born into a position of helplessness - they are small (older siblings are bigger), unable (to express themselves properly), weak (cannot lift heavy things), short (cannot get to the top of the counter) and they need to deal with lots of frustration, much more than adults do. I suggest we practice some patience. Frustration is not another name to ODD.
- Following rules requires rules to be set. Most people participating in my parenting program find that their definition of rules makes it very hard for their kids to follow them. For many adults, rules are set in stone and must be followed (blindly obeyed, really). For kids, rules help them function in "The Safety Zone". They help kids feel safe making decisions, making mistakes or just having fun. Kids have free spirits and you can create many problems that will be wrongly diagnosed with ADD, ADHD or ODD just by making their environment too strict. Everyone was emphasizing obedience rather than freedom and safety.
- The word "deliberately" will not stand in any court. All humans have feelings. We feel hurt, we feel angry, we feel disappointed and we feel neglected. Everything we do, we do because we believe we will benefit from it. Kids and adults alike do things they believe will make them feel better, even for a few seconds. Even criminals do "bad things" because they think they will benefit from them at least for a short while. Hurting others for the sake of hurting others does not really exist. Every person hurting someone gets some psychological benefit from it.
"No one can annoy you without your consent"
- Ronit Baras - Blaming others is a learnt behavior. We only blame others when we find it too hard to take responsibility. We blame when it is too heavy. Blaming is part of the mentality of a victim. Some kids are victims at short stages of their life and they carry this identity with them years later. This could be started by a fight at school with a popular kid in grade 2 and can trigger blaming whenever the kids feels judged. Some kids use blame as a defense mechanism because they are blamed themselves for every small thing and they believe this is acceptable behavior. All my clients go through the session about blaming and justifying and, based on the above definition, they all have ODD (when I am upset, I have ODD too).
I am touchy every month before my period. I am touchy when I see a sad movie. I am touchy when I try too hard and things do not work and I am touchy when I do not sleep well (when do not sleep enough I cry for no reason). I am touchy when I get hurt. I thought all this was just human, but maybe I am wrong and I have ODD (actually, I think I have both ODD and ADHD). Feeling touchy can be caused by so many objective reasons that can be easily removed. I think it is risky to label sensitivity in such a way.- Kids can be angry for reasons that grown ups cannot understand. Kids' perception of the world is very naïve and they struggle to learn the patterns of the world around them, which is a big challenge. Sometimes, when something happens that does not match their expectations, they get angry. Is it not the same as losing your temper? They can feel like this because they are afraid, because they do not understand, because they cannot understand time or because they cannot predict the future. They are just normal! It does not make them clinically defiant.
- "Spiteful and vindictive" are distortions of angry or defensive reactions. Again, kids only do what they feel will benefit them. Have you never felt you wanted to hurt someone who hurt you? Being "spiteful" or "vindictive" can be an attempt to achieve some justice. In kids' distorted perception, someone has hurt them and "paying them back" is going to make them feel better.
Dear Veronica,
Some people like labeling, because it takes away some of the guilt feelings that parents feel immediately when their kids do not behave exactly "the way they're supposed to". I personally do not like labels, because very often they stick to the kids and require a lot of effort to remove. In fact, I am in the business of removing labels and I can tell you that this part of the job is the most challenging. Sometimes, the labels stick so hard that the client would rather stop coaching than lose the label.
I admire your direct approach to finding ways to help him. I think your focus on "What do we do now?" is wonderful.
The bad news
Without knowing your son, I can tell you he has the UNHAPPY syndrome. UNHAPPY is similar to ADHD, it is similar to ADD and it is similar to ODD. When kids are UNHAPPY with something, this influences every part of their life and makes them do "bad" things. Then, the people around them give them negative feedback, which only makes them more UNHAPPY. It's a cycle.
The good News
UNHAPPY kids can be treated by changing their perception of life.
Most likely, your son's behavior is a cry for help. Every time he exhibits one, two, four or five of the behaviors described above, he is saying, "I do not understand you. You are not behaving the way I expect you to. I am confused and I can't find a good way to explain it to you. You do not understand me. I never meant for it to get out of control, but what I mean and what happens are not the same. I thought that people should treat each other nicely but they don't. I thought there was justice, but there isn't. I need help! Mom, please help me!"
Whenever children behave in such a way, this is their childish way to ask for help. If you treat it that way, it will take a big load of your shoulders. Some kids learn the rules of living from "the air", but others need translation.
For you to help your son, you need to answer the following questions to yourself. The answers are your tools to help him:
- Is he good at something (school, sport, art, craft, gardening and so on)?
Many kids are good at unusual things. The expectation they will do well in all areas, particularly in numeracy and literacy, is not realistic. If you find what he likes, this is your first step to help him. If he is good at anything that seems irrelevant to his schooling, treat it as if it is relevant and make him feel it is important. If you are not sure what he loves doing, ask him, "If you had all the time in the world and you could do anything you wanted, without worrying what anyone might think, what would you do?" - Does he get a chance to do the things he likes?
For example, if he likes music, does he get the chance to listen or play music every day? Kids need to do the things they like doing every day. When they do the things they like, it makes them happy and their happiness chases the frustration away. Kids who practice what they love, excel in other areas of life. - Are there any adults he respects?
This can give you an indication that it is not your son's problem but a challenge with particular adults' attitude. If he is respectful to one person, even just one, find out what that person does that inspires this respect. - What is the ratio between positive and negative things you (and the other adults in his life) say to him each day?
Kids who are bombarded with negativity, become hostile. Blaming is their way of getting rid of some of that load. If your son blames others, he is probably feeling bad. Try not to blame him too much. Whenever there is a conflict, focus on what you want him to do in the future. If he lingers on what happens, change his focus by saying, "Let's see what we can do about it". If you use too many "Pink Elephants", change your language to a positive language and ask his teachers to do the same. - How many times have you offered to help him when he was in trouble?
Kids want to know you will be there for them even when they make mistakes (which they will sometimes). The more you are with them or next to them, the fewer mistakes they will make. If your son is upset, ask, "What can I do to help you?" in the most supportive way you can. If he is too upset to talk, say, "I want you to know I am always here for you" (for inspiration, see "I will come" post and video and "The door is always open"). Make sure he knows that asking for your help will always be accepted.
I think the five tips above are a great start for a having a happy child. Often, using only one of them can change a family's life.
Good luck!
Ronit
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Posted in Emotional Intelligence, Parenting, kids children | 
Tags: add adhd, attention deficit, behavior, beliefs, communication, disorder, Emotional Intelligence, focus, identity, learning, ODD, positive attitude tips
19 Responses to “Opposition Defiance Disorder – What an ODD Name”
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[...] Original post by Ronit Baras [...]
[...] Original post by Ronit Baras [...]
Good for you.
The distorted vision of the 'perfect child' promoted in the mass media by vested interests has become so drummed into people's heads it's no wonder many parents (and teachers) are easily fooled into believing that there's 'something wrong' with children who behave in an entirely human manner!
It's the insidious unrealistic ideals they're trying to match their actual experiences to that are the abnormality.
So-called 'ODD' and 'ADHD' are medical metaphors invented by members of the psychiatric profession in the same way that the spoof medical condition 'Adultitis' was invented - by arbitrarily bundling together apparently related observed behaviours and attributing them to an imagined single cause. See http://www.adultitis.org
See also The Incredible Hoax and Horror of Modern Psychiatric Diagnosis: http://www.psychdisorders.org/
And my free ebook How The American Psychiatric Association Tried To Scam Me And What I Did About It:
http://www.parental-intelligence.com/HTAPATTSM.html
Hi,
We received your request and thought we would check out the website.
I have to say, this article in particular made me - laugh, cry and everything in between. I often joke with parents during my class, when they mention that their child has been diagnosed with ODD, that they ought not worry. I MOST certainly was and am an ODD child, and look, I am a functioning member of society. Oppositional Defiant Disorder to me is anyone who has a mind of their own and uses it. Sighs of relief, laughter and at times tears follow.
We will be in touch shortly to talk.
Be well,
Vicki
Hi Bob,
Well, obviously I love your definition of ODD and ADHD because we share the same vision on life.
I went to check the adultitis site and I have to say I had a feeling it was just a joke. I do not believe that anyone with a normal mind (well, maybe they are not normal) would seriously mean that. I am sure it is people wanting to make fun of modern psychiatric. You do not mean they are serious about it right?
Or maybe I am in my dream "Be Happy in Life" world too much…
I want to believe that not all psychiatrics are like that. I have to believe in it if I want to make a difference.
Thanks again for coming here and thank you for adding my posts to your newsletter. I get people telling me they have seen my articles in your newsletter. I appreciate it.
Happy week
Ronit
http://www.behappyinlife.com
Hi Vicki,
I am happy my article brought up all those emotions. I love your definition of ODD – anyone who has a mind of their own and uses it. Cool! This definition is not so odd to me at all. It is a wonderful concept Odd and proud! I'll write about it.
I dedicated a whole story ("curly line with flowers") in my book, "Be Special, Be Yourself for Teenagers" in hope to teach parents and teens to never give up this uniqueness, just to fit in with others.
http://www.behappyinlife.com/be_special_be_yourself_for_teenagers.php
Thanks for visiting my site and thank you for your comment.
Yes, let's talk
Happy week
Ronit
http://www.behappyinlife.com
Hi, Ronit
Ah, well, I don't actually have a definition of "ODD" and "ADHD" since I don't acknowledge their existence. :-)
"Adultitis" is indeed a spoof medical condition. Not, I think, a deliberate poke at the psychiatric profession, more an example of Jason Kotecki's sense of humour that happens to be, incidentally, a sharp commentary on the medical model of human behaviour the psychiatric profession has sold to the unsuspecting public.
I find it useful to point to because of the similarities between how "Adultitis" was invented and how "ADHD" and "ODD" were invented.
With best wishes for your success and happiness,
Bob
Hi Bob,
I need to learn how you add the smiley. I like it. I am the same, I cannot define it, I say that I do not believe it exists and that most of the people diagnosed with it are victims. I should put a smiley at the end of such statement – It could save lots of aggression.
I have to say that I loved Vicki's definition "Oppositional Defiant Disorder to me is anyone who has a mind of their own and uses it" I especially loved the "uses it". It is a great definition – Sure better than mine.
I understand how all three of them are similar but even psychiatrists do what they think is the right thing, so it is very hard to blame them for coming up with such things. My mind is already in the story telling land and I imagine a story about a sickness called "life".
I have to say that I think that the real issue is that the "unsuspecting public" is actually buying this. It is not enough to sell, someone needs to buy. The big question is why do people buy?
Happy week
May the force be with you!
Ronit
http://www.behappyinlife.com
Hi, Ronit
Thank you very much. For the smiley, I just typed ":-)" and it appeared all on its own. :-)
I have a very low opinion of psychiatry as a 'helping profession' but, even if its primary motivation is money, I think the prevalance of the idea that unhappiness is a medical condition (which is what the APA's "disorders of childhood and adolescence" are essentially suggesting) has as much to do with the prevalance in these modern times of stressed adults who, for one reason or another, *need* a simple solution to complex problems. What could be simpler than a magic pill? "Just what the doctor ordered."
So, yes, it's true, psychiatry wouldn't be selling its invented 'disorders' if there weren't people willing to buy them. Hopefully, that will change.
Thank you for your excellent writing on this and other subjects.
With best wishes,
Bob
Hi Ronit
Thanks for the detailed response but, our son seems mostly happy as long as he gets to do what he wants,
ie, computer and phone 24/7 we have set boundaries and times but he always breaks them, no matter what the rewards may be to not break them, he is now smoking
he is 14 and does not have respect for adults advice or rules, so do you have any further advice
thanks Veronica
Hi Bob,
Let me try the smiley "". Cool, it works. (I feel so proud of myself)
I guess the "Magic Pill" is something that society wants and when there is much need for something, there are always some that will be glad to supply it.
It is amazing how many people think doctors are the divine Gods and do whatever the doctors tell them to do. (Some of them are in my own family) I find this even more alarming.
I once thought that if they get enough proof that it does not work that way, they will take more responsibility on their health but it has no effect on them at all. It is not a rational thing and brainwash that took 20 to 30 years is much stronger than a proof.
I still believe we can change people's perceived need for such needs if we work on a better marketing strategy.
The pharmaceutical companies make millions because of a good marketing campaign. Doctors are just a tool for them to pass on their product into the public. They convince people they are sick and that pills, medications or herbal supplements are the answer. We need to promote that people are perfectly healthy (if they only believe they do) and have a better campaign.
I managed to convince most of my clients that they are actually "perfect" just the way they are and that they have all the power they need to keep themselves happy, healthy, wealthy but I have to say that doing it one at a time takes a long time. In that sense, time is not on our side.
I work with in a humanitarian organization and say the same thing: "War sells. War will stop when we find a better way to sell Peace"
I am working on it. I know you do too with every post and newsletter. If we'll continue, we'll win.
If you have more ideas let me know.
(I did it again. I think I am going to start using this smiley more often)
Wonderful weekend
Ronit
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J25jTpshJ8I
Hi Veronica,
Even kids that are happy to do whatever they want, bring this need from somewhere. Inside themselves they feel they cannot do what they want, not allow to do what they want and their wants are not recognized.
Parents and kids' wants are different and this is most of the time the reason for the conflicts between them.
I have to say that to talk about boundaries and computer or phone cannot go together. What will he do if you lock the computer and do not give him access to it? You are the person who brought the computer home, you are the one who is paying for the internet, and you are the one who can stop it.
Kids break the rules only because they can. When you'll get to this stage when you set the boundaries and they are non-negotiable, he will keep them. I know it sounds hard but you need to be confident with your boundaries, not him. And boundaries with teens only work when you agree on them. You discuss this together and you never stop being the parent. Kids must know that you are sailing together and you are the captain! This is not negotiable!
Captains do not have to be cruel and insensitive but they must make decisions that will affect a whole ship. I recommend you explain this to your kid and do not be afraid to say, "You get to sail your own ship at the age of 18, whether you like it or not. You will be the captain and get to make different choices. Until then, I am the captain and I control the ship". I have the most wonderful kids but there are moments that even I have to say it. Yes, kids can doubt you and they can disagree with you but at the end, you should have the last word.
You are describing a behavior of a confused kid who is trying to say something but do not have the words to express them. If it started suddenly, find out what happened just before he started behaving like this. Parents' conflicts, big changes, lost of loved one, fear, bullying, physical changes in their body can easily make them behave like that. If you focus on finding the source, it will be the end of it. Fighting him is only going to make it worst. He needs help; you are the only one that can help him.
Respect is a "big" word. Many parents think that respect = obeying. If this is your definition, you have a healthy, normal kid. Kids that obey are not better nor easier to parent. Obeying without understanding is the disease of the self-confidence.
Truth is, good advice is advice you give without the expectation the other person will accept it. You can give, he must choose to take. It is not easy to accept advice from a person 30 years older than you are that does not understand your life.
Suggestions:
• Agree on a strategy with your partner. If possible, agree on it with all his teachers.
• Ask him "What do you want?" If he says what he wants you to do, or what he does not want you to do. Ask again. "What do you want?" only when you get an answer that you understand what his needs are, move on to the next one.
• "Why do you want that?" "What will it give you?" you must find the source of the need.
• Take all rights: you do not take him to school, you do not cook for him, you do not wash his clothes, you do not buy him anything, you do not pay for his mobile, and you do not allow friends over (and if they come without your permission, tell them nicely, they have to leave because you never allowed it). You will be surprised how respectful kids are when they get up in the morning not having their uniform or coming to dinner and not plate for them on the table. If you are concerned about it regarding school, talk to school and let them know that you are going to do that and that you are happy for school to punish them if needed. I do not know any person using this strategy that ever needed to do if for over a week.
• Hand him a list of rules. Make a list of how you can earn rights (make sure you have plenty of them) and how he losses right. Earning always takes longer than losing – it is a lesson most kids must learn. Milking a cow can take hours; kicking the bucket takes a second. Parents are cows but every cow can kick hard if treated without respect.
• Give the rules to every kid in the house and be very strict about it.
Start with this, I promise you will see some change in a short time.
Let me know how it went.
Ronit
http://www.behappyinlife.com/be_special_be_yourself_for_teenagers.php
Just to clarify ODD versus "all of us".
Defiance :
Adult unhappy with boss - "I'm afraid I can not do that as I have made plans with my family that you have already approved the time off."
Teen streching his wings - "Mom, I'll get to it later .. right after I am done with this one line match!"
Teen really streching wings - "I'll do it in a minute! D**m it!"
ODD Teen - "Why do you have to F**ng always talk to me in that F**ng high pitch tone. You are the mother why don't you F**ng leave me alone and make dinner for your kid like a G.D. mother ought to. Your so F**ng anoying you F**g B**ch."
Just saying that ODD is not exactly a bad day type issue. Perhaps you have never seen it in person.
I live with one.
And in case you want to minimize or dismiss it .. well he is in a good christian home with two parents one is a teacher and the other a systems engineer. he has too older brothers that are doing fine. He was in sports nearly his entire life and has had loads of encouragement. Dad does many activities with the 3 boys that they all enjoy, camping, fishing, hiking, paint ball, video games and many other activities. Neither Dad or Mom does drugs, drinks or is depressed. Neither is away from home for long periods. Family chores and rules are clearly articulated and posed on a regular basis. This one clearly knows that and simply states that he can not be made to do them because there is nothing you as a parent can do to enforce them. And he is right. And of course all of this got way worse when he started using drugs. As one police officer put it .."It is like living with a wild animal"
"Just saying that ODD is not exactly a bad day type issue. Perhaps you have never seen it in person."
Has your son thrown a house brick at your head yet? My son did that to me once after he'd become deeply unhappy at school (it didn't hit me - I ducked in time). Week after week, every time I collected my son at the end of the school day, I would be treated to a barrage of F words and have my arms punched and my shins kicked to pieces on the walk home. That's because he blamed me for his unhappiness - I was the one who made sure he got to school every day. Then there was the time he whacked me with a six foot long tree branch. Ouch. That really did hurt. I was lucky nothing was broken. In the meantime, I did my best to help my son adapt to school life, but to no avail. Eventually, my wife and I took him out of school to be educated at home and his unhappiness and violent behaviour disappeared like morning mist in the sunshine. Odd that, isn't it?
Well, not to me it isn't. It makes perfect sense. We're all much happier when we get what we really want, are we not?
Hi Bob,
I didn't know that about you.
It adds some "flavour" to what you do.
You and your wife are brave people and inspiration to many other parents. I hope many people will click on your website and go and find out who you are.
I am fighting the labels from special educator's perspective. You are doing it from personal experience. That is sure inspiring to win your kid back by not giving up on him.
From time to time, people tel me " but you don't know what I am talking about because your own kids are..."
What they don't know is that I was an ODD and ADHD with physical disabilities and learning difficulties kid myself. So they are right, I don't know what it means to be a parent to such kid.
I think next time I will forward them to you.
What do you say?
Happy day to you ODD dad
Ronit
Dear dad of an ODD child,
You are right. It never happened to me that my child did that but it happened to me that children I worked with did that and it is not fun at all.
I have more memories of doing this myself to my own parents...
However,
In the book "The way of the Wizard" by Deepak Chopra, Merlin teaches Arthur the way of wizard. The first rule is to see feelings instead of actions/word.
So I will try to be wise and apply rule # 1 and this is what I see:
Adult unhappy with boss - I am frustrated.
Teen stretching his wings - I am very frustrated.
ODD Teen - I am extremely frustrated....I am scared...I don't know what to do... I need help...Please!...How many F**ing times do I need to tell you I am frustrated?
Frustration is part of life. There is no point in taking blame for kids' behaviour. Taking blame and taking responsibility is not the same thing. Blame is trying to find someone to take away your burden and asking "Why did it happen to me?". Taking responsibility is trying to find a solution and asking "What can I do to change it?"
Labels, like the ODD one is a blame focus. Oh, let's blame the chemical imbalance. Let me tell you, every time something is happening and we are frustrated, there is a chemical imbalance but it is part of life and we need to have better skills to cope. Better skills not better labels. ODD teen does not have enough life experience to express his fears and recognise the consequences of his actions/word.yet!
labels work against you. When you label you kid as ODD, you give him the permission to be ODD.
I am sure that what you are facing is frustrating too and no one is blaming you. The question is not if he has ODD or not, the question is "What can we do to change it?". I always ask the parents I work with "OK, now that you have the label, did it fix the problem?". Your child has a need that is not fulfilled and he is begging you to help him. Using drugs is another way of seeking help. In how many ways do you want to hear it?
I do not know if taking your child out of school, like Bob and his wife did, is the right thing for you but I sure recommend asking him about his experience.
If you think people need to experience it to help you, find other parents who managed to find a solution. I promise you none of them is impressed by labels.
When you win, I am sure the memory of the anger, frustration and the excessive use of the F word will fade.
Be strong!
Ronit
I agree that a label fixes nothing. At the most it is a word used by many to find a common ground. It is in fact how I found this and other web sites.
My son has been kicked out of several schools and finally barely passed the GED as a requirement to get off probation. I once asked if he wanted me to home school him and he said no because he loves school. School has not been an issue with him for 6 months now. Neither has work since he feels that it is entirely my job to find him a job. I and the wife have found 3 so far and he has been fired from one for sexual harassment. And the managers of the other too don't care to talk to me about him.
I understand when a child is frustrated and acts out. All of my children have at times, as I did as a kid my self.
Sometimes giving into what the child wants is not being a responsible parent. My defiant son simply wants to be left alone. At 16 he told his probation officer exactly what he wanted. He wanted to be given an apartment, TV, Xbox, food delivered, a car and $500 a week. If the state would not "emancipate" him in that way then his parents should do that for him because parents will do any thing to make their kids happy. He even asked the Judge to emancipate him. He got exactly the response you would expect. "Emancipate you? Your lucky I don't throw you in jail. You should be happy your parents are still willing to work this out because I would put you in jail today!"
In deed I would be very happy if the world would treat me like a prince and give me every thing I ever wanted with out any work on my part too. But that is not reality.
Actions have consequences. Calling some one a bunch of names means they will not help you solve your problems. That is reality. Most of us learn this by a very early age. He seems to have missed this some how. Asking for help and working out the issues in a calm manner will lead to help and often a compromise.
So yes I am putting my foot down. In 3 weeks he is 18 and he has been told that I will not tolerate his bullying of his mother or other members of the family. I will throw him out of the home if it happens when he is 18.
Because of his record ..with the state and three local cities we have been to several anger management and family communication courses together. He does well in the course just as the does well in interviews with mental health professionals. But all of the adults in his life that place any expectations on him to do any thing for any kind of reward eventually find that he will not do the expected work but expect the reward regardless. And if the reward does not happen then the teacher, coach or minister is a F**ng what ever.
The last school he was at he even tried to claim that the Gym teacher had hit him to get the teacher fired. Why .. because the Gym teacher found him screaming violent cuss words and names at a girl at school and told him that it was wrong and he needs to stop. There were other kids around and reported that my son cussed the gym teacher out. He later tried to say that he was doing nothing wrong and the gym teacher has it in for him. Every time he gets in trouble his first response is always the same. "I didn't do any thing wrong", usually to the total amazement of all who witnessed his actions. It is a real jaw dropper. The Gym teacher was the last is a long line of teachers and my wife accused of being out to get him simply because they hold a standard for proper behavior that he is unwilling to meet so it is therefore their fault and not his own.
In my son's case the cussing and yelling is not used to express frustration. It is used intentionally to intimidate, manipulate and bully others into doing what he wants them to do. He has used it since the 5th grade.
Yes he uses bulling to get what he wants because he either does not know what to do or wants others to do it for him. Fact is most of the time after hours of abusing others he will do the solution given to him by his parents or his brothers. But it is all about getting others to do every thing for him. In other words wait on him and his every little need. It is as if he is still and infant.
I took the approach for a while (nearly destroyed my marriage and my relationship with my other two sons.) of taking the abuse and walking him through every thing that he wanted and that frustrated him. I did this for a while. The result was exactly what you would think. He treated me a bit better for a while ...treated the rest of the family even worse then ever and then stepped up his abuse toward me to try and make me do even more for him. His view became one of the louder and meaner you get the more likely you are to get what you want. I was facilitating that. So I quit. I want back to what is rite for the family regardless of what he thinks is rite for him.
As for success of other parents. I'd love to find a support group of that sort in my area. Because at the moment, one of my sons friends mother has simply paid for an apartment for her two sons for a year and is selling her home and moving to another city. The other mom is getting divorced because she and the dad don't agree on what to do with their son. So he is leaving and her solution is to pay all his fines, buy him a car and take him out driving. Then on weekends he gets drunk with his aunt.
I have a neighbor whose son was starting down the same path and was yelling and cussing at his mother and sisters to get what he wanted. My neighbor was very successful in stopping that behavior is a very short period of time and has a great relationship with his son who even helped support the family home when my neighbor was out of work for a few months. This same boy spends every other weekend in our home as he is a good friend of my oldest son. We refer to his boy as our 4th son. However the method used to fix the behavior had his son reported it, would have landed my neighbor in jail for at least a year.
My son had a girlfriend whose mother called the police every time she left the house with out permission. She removed the door to her daughters room. She removed all of the girls cloths and electronics .. she even got to the point once where she locked the room and gave the girl a blanket to sleep on the couch. She made the home a jail for all who lived there to make her daughter do what was required of her. This was the advice she had been given by several counselors. In the end her daughter still goes out at night and the mother had to give up the fight because she was destroying the lives of her other 3 girls.
These kids want exactly what you expect they want. Absolute and total freedom with no obligations to any one and no responsibility or accountability. They want every minute of every day to be a wild fun party.
They, regardless of frustration and acting out, have to learn that freedom comes with responsibility. That reward comes after hard work and that success is not given; it is earned. Being a bully to get what you want only works in some cases but will never get you very far. That cooperation gets you a lot farther then intimidation or tantrums.
And yes he threatened my wife by backing her to a wall and threatened to hit her with a picture frame. I stepped in and prevented it. Got in a fight when he hit me. Threw him out of the house. Told him he could return when he promised not to threaten others in the house. Had the police show up and make me take him in while they gave me an assault ticket along with him. Note he thought that they would do nothing to him since he is the victim having been thrown out. We went to court and the DA let me off with arbitration. But told him if she sees him in court again she will ask the judge for at least 30 days and a $5000 fine. To this day he tells his friends that he asked the DA to let his dad off and that he would accept arbitration because it was his dad. Rather big of him don't you think?
Ok ... sorry about that last post ... a bit negative. I'll leave you all alone. Good luck to all.
Dad of an ODD child,
don't worry.
We all have moments when we are venting and sound a bit negative.
You probably went through tough and rough attempts to help your kid.
I sure do not envy you for going through such thing.
No one can be the judge of it.
I hope you will find something that will help you get to him.
I hope he will allow you to come closer.
I am not sure the ODD title is helping.
No one needs freedom unless he feels he doesn't have one. Something Made him perceive life as threatening.
It does not matter what he tells his friends, he knows the truth and you know it.
I hope the DA threat did a good job and he is re-thinking.
When he is 18 no one will be impressed and he won't be able to hide behind "it was my dad's or mom's fault".
If he loves any form of art, you can try interests him with that.
If there is something he needs from you, give it only as a reward for good behaviour.
for example: who is paying for the Internet? for his mobile phone? take messages for him? make him dinner?...
It may be hard but if it is just a trial and error until you hit the soft spot. They all have a soft spot - we just need to find it.
I wish you luck and congratulate you for trying so hard for him.
one day, he will thank you for it. Just keep telling him you love him, even when he is upset, well, especially when he is upset and he will remember it.
Good luck!
Ronit